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agrizokh
I mean the so-called "Berghain sound" which is all over the place these days, labels like Sandwell District, Horizontal Ground, Traversible Wormhole, and Ostgut themselves...

I guess it works in the Berghain atmosphere, but sounds very weird everywhere else. It's also all the same - someone (Ben Klock?) came up with the sound, and now everyone's copying it, it's sort of the new mnml with the same generic sounds, but now sounding more lo-fi. Where's the groove? Where's the music? Where's the innovation, finnaly? To me, it's just boom boom boom with no groove with some eeire pads on top. How is that cool and/or dancable?

You open the techno sectionin any online record store, and it's that stuff all over it.

Examples: saw Robag Whrume, the guy everyone seems to suck up to on the internets, and he killed the atmosphere of the whole festival with his "real techno". After him, a Japanese dude named Takkyu Ishino managed not only to revive the party, but become the star of the show right before the boring headliners went on.

Also saw Ben Klock, but he was pretty good - but he has a very distinct style, and, for instance, I doubt that any of the tracks he played would fit into my set. Though his set was even more into schranz territorry.

Where's the pure electronic techno? So what if the acid sound isn't new, you can still make wonders with it (though it seems too many fakes put their hands on a 303 these days). Where are the tight percussive loops, fucked up driving beats and phat synths?

Wanted to write some more, but thoughts escape me now...

Anyway, this is a rant of a DJ who switched to vinyl in hopes there may be some better exclusive tunes there, but they are still one in a million, compared to one in a trilli-fucking-whatever-on on digital. Nope, 99% of the vinyl sold these days can go straight back to the plant for recycling... I spend hours and days listening and trying to form my record collection, and I still pretty much buy classics. Getting frustrated and dissapointed in the techno scene... And seeing that I bob my head more to vocal house releases, at least those got soul =)

two|beers
Hmm maybe it is called Berghain techno, because it fits to the Berghain.. if it would sound good everywhere.. well its not Berghain sound wink.gif
OC the sound isnt that innovativ at all but thats ok to me. I dont buy many Ostgut or near-dub/mnml techno vinyl w/o thinking of the Berghain while listening.
Cybarite
I disagree.

I think some of this stuff is totally awesome, like the "Funf" compilation from Ostgut Ton. There is something very experimental and ambient about the sound; music approaching noise. I like when you can't really decide if it is bad sounding noise or sweet sounding music - balancing on the edge so to speak. Therein lies Robag Wruhme's brilliance.

However, I can see that maybe the sound is not optimally suited for the club, and I can imagine getting quite tired of it at say a label night. Wouldn't mind it when morning approaches after a long night of dancing though.
Flint Eastwood
I hate it. Been to Bergain twice, expecting it to live up to its hype as being voted the best club in the world, and was completely disappointed. I'm in no hurry to go back. Massive cues, dull music, expensive entry, and absolutely commercial.

Tresor is much better. Still commercial and expensive but at least downstairs is heavy, and they always play decent music upstairs as well. But even then there are much better clubs in Berlin. A friend told me that Ritte Butzke has its birthday celebration this Saturday...can't wait wink.gif
agrizokh
QUOTE (Cybarite @ 08. Dec 2010, 23:13) *
I think some of this stuff is totally awesome, like the "Funf" compilation from Ostgut Ton. There is something very experimental and ambient about the sound; music approaching noise. I like when you can't really decide if it is bad sounding noise or sweet sounding music - balancing on the edge so to speak. Therein lies Robag Wruhme's brilliance.

However, I can see that maybe the sound is not optimally suited for the club, and I can imagine getting quite tired of it at say a label night. Wouldn't mind it when morning approaches after a long night of dancing though.


Funf? Don't be kidding me. It's pure shite, totally unlistenable. When I first heard it, I wept for the future of techno. I cut them some slack when I found out when it's made purely from the sounds recorded in the club, but it doesn't make it less shitty, just adds more hipster credibility.

And why should I listen to bad sounding noise in the first place, and try to imagine it's music? It's balancing on the edge of shit. Instead of walking knee deep in a shit creek, I'd rather be running around in a pretty fields full of flowers and stuff. Or in a grim cold ice-cave. But not in shit.

I'm telling you, if I play one note on a soft synth for half an hour, twiddle the LFO a bit, and then release it on some Ostgut Ton-like label where it would be reviewed as "a hypnotic and deep ambient journey which gets to you only on the 1776547th listen", people like you will be running around buying this crap and pretending you're cooler than the other guys because you "get it" . The truth is, you have your head up your ass.



And from the other replies, I see that inside the club is not much different. What's the hype all about then? Everyone's head is up their ass?
two|beers
I'm not a Berghain fanboy but it is something different from most clubs i've been to. Not really "better" but special. And I think just because some tracks arent made with 50 Layers makes them shit. Its a matter of taste... I agree with all the hype and #1 club talks the Berghain lost some of its roots but that started years ago. I hardly went there the last year but enjoyed the music every time for myself.
Cybarite
QUOTE (agrizokh @ 08. Dec 2010, 17:33) *
QUOTE (Cybarite @ 08. Dec 2010, 23:13) *
I think some of this stuff is totally awesome, like the "Funf" compilation from Ostgut Ton. There is something very experimental and ambient about the sound; music approaching noise. I like when you can't really decide if it is bad sounding noise or sweet sounding music - balancing on the edge so to speak. Therein lies Robag Wruhme's brilliance.

However, I can see that maybe the sound is not optimally suited for the club, and I can imagine getting quite tired of it at say a label night. Wouldn't mind it when morning approaches after a long night of dancing though.


Funf? Don't be kidding me. It's pure shite, totally unlistenable. When I first heard it, I wept for the future of techno. I cut them some slack when I found out when it's made purely from the sounds recorded in the club, but it doesn't make it less shitty, just adds more hipster credibility.

And why should I listen to bad sounding noise in the first place, and try to imagine it's music? It's balancing on the edge of shit. Instead of walking knee deep in a shit creek, I'd rather be running around in a pretty fields full of flowers and stuff. Or in a grim cold ice-cave. But not in shit.

I'm telling you, if I play one note on a soft synth for half an hour, twiddle the LFO a bit, and then release it on some Ostgut Ton-like label where it would be reviewed as "a hypnotic and deep ambient journey which gets to you only on the 1776547th listen", people like you will be running around buying this crap and pretending you're cooler than the other guys because you "get it" . The truth is, you have your head up your ass.



And from the other replies, I see that inside the club is not much different. What's the hype all about then? Everyone's head is up their ass?


Well, the sound is not for everyone. Just as running around in a pretty field full of flowers is not for everyone either. I'm just saying that some of the stuff they are doing music-wise is pretty interesting and actually, be prepared to be chocked now, quite good. Far from all of it though, as with most labels, but enough to respect it.

Music doesn't have to be highly technical to be good, I am sure you would agree to this. However, it needs to be brilliantly conceived. Is this not partly what minimal artists like Plastikman set out to do? To make us appreciate the greatness that is half an hour of one note on a soft synth with a little bit of LFO twiddling. I know that it verges on the pretentious, but I honestly admit that I am all for that.

Mark that I am only supporting the sound, I know nothing of the Berghain club, who goes there, it's reputation etc.
Flint Eastwood
In my opinion, dance music should always be danceable. This means, minimal can be great, so long as it has a groove. The second minimal loses it's tribal-like rhythms and becomes closer to ambient, the second it should stopped being played in a club. And a 4/4 kick drum with a load of pads isn't enough to constitute a groove...
jayzn
i really liked the "fuck hipsters" part of this thread...

after that you guys lost me... must be a european thing.

at least the hatred of hipsters is world wide currency
Aicis
What is this thread all about?
Must be some hipster thing. Im more of an age of a hippy.
This is what i loved about it most:

QUOTE
Funf? Don't be kidding me. It's pure shite, totally unlistenable.


Thats probably a reason why whatever it is is so popular (thats what same person thats said the above said somewhere)
jayzn
Wha??

Youre from europe and you dont know what berghain is??

jeez... do the cool kids push you into the lockers aicis? tongue.gif
Aicis
sounds like some german stuff. Nazi hill or something.
I give up. Ill just stick to listening to my folk rock tapes in my lockerhouse.
agrizokh
QUOTE (Cybarite @ 09. Dec 2010, 01:34) *
Well, the sound is not for everyone. Just as running around in a pretty field full of flowers is not for everyone either. I'm just saying that some of the stuff they are doing music-wise is pretty interesting and actually, be prepared to be chocked now, quite good. Far from all of it though, as with most labels, but enough to respect it.

Music doesn't have to be highly technical to be good, I am sure you would agree to this. However, it needs to be brilliantly conceived. Is this not partly what minimal artists like Plastikman set out to do? To make us appreciate the greatness that is half an hour of one note on a soft synth with a little bit of LFO twiddling. I know that it verges on the pretentious, but I honestly admit that I am all for that.


OH MY GOD. You are not so bright, are you? "Not for everyone", hahaha, did you see the title of this thread? In this post, you just confirmed all these things about yourself that I was making fun of above.

"appreciate the greatness that is half an hour of one note on a soft synth"
I have no words. Really. I would like to laugh, but this is just sad.
Ok, sorry for the caps, but I feel it's really required for this occasion.
THERE IS NOOOO FUCKING "GREATNESS" IN THAT!!! IT IS FAGGOTRY!!!
It is what it is, nothing more than one note on a soft synth! Anyone can do that! And because most of the people are idiots and listen to it, it doesn't make it good! It's even worse than Lady Gaga, because it tries to convince you it is for real. At least she makes a shitload of money and enjoyes herself, while those nerds sit in their leaking Berlin apartments and think that they're fucking avant-garde dada-shitfunk musicians leading the world scene or whatever.


QUOTE (Flint Eastwood @ 09. Dec 2010, 07:19) *
In my opinion, dance music should always be danceable. This means, minimal can be great, so long as it has a groove. The second minimal loses it's tribal-like rhythms and becomes closer to ambient, the second it should stopped being played in a club. And a 4/4 kick drum with a load of pads isn't enough to constitute a groove...

yes.gif thumbsup.gif
Schnickschnack
QUOTE (Aicis @ 09. Dec 2010, 05:25) *
sounds like some german stuff. Nazi hill or something.


xDDD

but yeah you are kinda right lol

Cybarite
QUOTE (agrizokh @ 09. Dec 2010, 10:09) *
OH MY GOD. You are not so bright, are you? "Not for everyone", hahaha, did you see the title of this thread? In this post, you just confirmed all these things about yourself that I was making fun of above.

"appreciate the greatness that is half an hour of one note on a soft synth"
I have no words. Really. I would like to laugh, but this is just sad.
Ok, sorry for the caps, but I feel it's really required for this occasion.
THERE IS NOOOO FUCKING "GREATNESS" IN THAT!!! IT IS FAGGOTRY!!!
It is what it is, nothing more than one note on a soft synth! Anyone can do that! And because most of the people are idiots and listen to it, it doesn't make it good! It's even worse than Lady Gaga, because it tries to convince you it is for real. At least she makes a shitload of money and enjoyes herself, while those nerds sit in their leaking Berlin apartments and think that they're fucking avant-garde dada-shitfunk musicians leading the world scene or whatever.


Of course I must be part of the group you are trying to make fun of, at least in sentiment (since where I come from listening to this sort of stuff doesn't earn you any points socially), I thought we established that in the first post.

Apparently you have no love for the more experimental side of minimal and will not even explore it in thought. Although I did enjoy your rants, further discussion is redundant.
hwperic
QUOTE (Cybarite @ 09. Dec 2010, 12:39) *
QUOTE (agrizokh @ 09. Dec 2010, 10:09) *
OH MY GOD. You are not so bright, are you? "Not for everyone", hahaha, did you see the title of this thread? In this post, you just confirmed all these things about yourself that I was making fun of above.

"appreciate the greatness that is half an hour of one note on a soft synth"
I have no words. Really. I would like to laugh, but this is just sad.
Ok, sorry for the caps, but I feel it's really required for this occasion.
THERE IS NOOOO FUCKING "GREATNESS" IN THAT!!! IT IS FAGGOTRY!!!
It is what it is, nothing more than one note on a soft synth! Anyone can do that! And because most of the people are idiots and listen to it, it doesn't make it good! It's even worse than Lady Gaga, because it tries to convince you it is for real. At least she makes a shitload of money and enjoyes herself, while those nerds sit in their leaking Berlin apartments and think that they're fucking avant-garde dada-shitfunk musicians leading the world scene or whatever.


Of course I must be part of the group you are trying to make fun of, at least in sentiment (since where I come from listening to this sort of stuff doesn't earn you any points socially), I thought we established that in the first post.

Apparently you have no love for the more experimental side of minimal and will not even explore it in thought. Although I did enjoy your rants, further discussion is redundant.



mmmyea I was starting to wonder what was the point of the thread in the first place.
Had a laugh picturing agrizokh going berserk infront of his computer, got to give you that smile.gif
rydimryder
Buahahaha. First of all OP you massively contradict yourself by saying you don't like the Berghain sound but that you saw Klock (who you acknowledge as a pioneer of the sound itself) and he was great. Anyway, I'd have to agree with you in the sense that far from everything with the o-ton stamp is gold, like Fünf for example, but they still have their moments. Dettmann's Berghain 02 is one of the best mixes I've heard, Dettmann / Klock releases like Scenario are dirty stormers, Shedding The Past is timeless, and Klock's latest Compression Session has two totally dope tracks, just to name a few. It's true, many people tend to endlessly praise anything on o-ton just because of the label, but that's just an unfortunate reality in today's world and it's up to you to wade through the shit and find the gems.

I went to the club once when I was in Berlin for a few hours and had a good time. Sick setting, wikid space, massive sound in the main room, chill crowd; what's not to like? But more importantly it is / it was a generator of new vectors in music. Sure, it's become a bitch for many a reason, but that's the case with almost everything that experiences success. Very hard for a great restaurant to stay a great restaurant once everyone knows about it and the hype and demand takes over, or for someone with fantastic ideas in fields such as art, fashion, or architecture (I'm in the latter) to continually reinvent themselves. And in today's world, when you have the opportunity to do something you've always dreamed of it's easy to lose sight of the original focus, but at the same time it would be almost antithetical to your original aspirations not to follow the evolution of your idea and keep things at a small scale simply for the sake conceptual "purity". In architecture I can only think of ONE person in the entire world who's achieved great acclaim yet hasn't lost touch with their core values. It's just human nature really, we are but tortured animals yearning for some greater significance in life. Never mind the fact that when we achieve this "success" it's hardly ever what we envisioned, but that's no reason not to forge ahead if you're doing what you love.

I'll end with a few recommendations for your jaded / new techno music starved / insert qualifier here soul like Stroboscopic Artefacts, Prologue, Do Not Resist The Beat!, Mikrowave, MDR (esp. 04 and 05), Ann Aimee (esp. Kumomusic 1 and Eletromagnetic Radiation 1), and Sandwell District. If this doesn't do it for you then I don't know what will, but a release like Lucy's Why Don't You Change / Dub Man Walking offers a bit of everything. Or check out some of their digital releases, a lot more innovative stuff there like in the Monad series. And if you like the heavy basement sound that is Tresor then look up Ancient Methods (esp. 02) and listen to this mix, one of my favourites ever:

http://fairtilizer.com/tracks/35906/download

And speaking of Tresor, I'd give Mike Dehnert a go. Recently he's been boring but he's done some great things in the last few years along with the likes of Peter van Hoesen.

This is coming from a guy who sounds very much like you: I play vinyl, I love the classics, I can get down to house / ambient / dub—you name it, but I just love good pumping fucking techno. And when taken with a grain of salt, there's a whole world out there that would benefit more from your hopeless optimism rather than your unabashed pessimism. Be brave and just stay true to your passions my fellow electronic traveller. And while you're at it, check this out:

http://www.torrentech.org/index.php?showtopic=150011

It's a fucked up world, but within all the mess there's some real beauty out there that we've got to harness as unique conditions for a better future.

P.s. I wrote this while listening to "Why Don't You Change" on endless repeat. Fucking sick track!
agrizokh
Yeah yeah, optimism is good and shit. I don't disagree.

Checked out some of your suggestions - didn't like much. Basic Channel did all that in 93, and did it better.

Don't like your picks from Ostgut either. My only favourite track from them is Nick Hoppner's Makeover.

The funny thing is that Lucy's track Grainy Lines has almost the same synth line as Jonh Tejada's Flight to Tokyo. Tejada's better anyway. "Why Don't You Change" is pretty decent, has this build-up thing going on. Nothing mind-blowing though. The B-side is ok too.

rydimryder
I don't like Höppner so I guess it goes both ways. That track is very minimal/tech-house. Not bad or anything, just hardly what I would consider a top pick of the straight up techno that Ostgut is known for. And as for Grainy Lines, that's also a poor comparison to his Stroboscopics Artefacts work, it's like apples to oranges. Lucy's older productions are very minimal/tech-house, but I'd have to say that even so the only standout on Grainy Lines is Breitbarth's nice jazzy "Deep Mix". Got that one on vinyl.

It's become clear to me that you don't really like techno as everything you've referenced is of a tech-house vein. "Has that build-up thing going on?" You sound like my "friend" who's not my friend who thinks he's so hardcore 'cause he come out to party with me a few times years ago. I once met a so called "techno DJ" who thought he was all that because he'd brought Anja Schneider (ugh) to play in Montreal. He was a real douche who only played lame ass minimal and tech-house. When I put something on he was like "oh, you like techno techno." I was like "dude, you're retarded."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling Basic Channel tech-house, I guess I just attribute that to the difference between someone liking Renaissance painting versus modern art—you can't compare, it's a matter of taste, though anyone who limits themselves to just one is missing out in my opinion. But much like art or techno, I like both so long as it's good. Got a ton of old MvO vinyls. They are not any "better" per se, but they have an important place in the evolution of this music. My favourites are still his M-series as Maurizio and M6 is a top pick any time and day of the week for me. Dude fucking invented dub techno with the Roland Space Echo, but that doesn't mean CV313, Ribn, STL, Delta Funktionen, Shed as EQD/Wax, or anyone else producing dub techno these days are frauds. They all make sick beats. There's only one person who invented the wheel, but the Michelin brothers sure made it a lot better with their modern iteration.

Ultimately it's easy to talk the talk, but show me what you got that's so much better than Ostgut. People who don't create anything are always so quick to profess their vast and unequivocal taste. Until you spend hours/days/weeks/months/years giving form to your hopes and dreams from the cold nothingness of our world it's all just an inferiority complex. And if you can't appreciate the beauty of Shed's The Lower Upside Down yet claim to represent the BC classics then there's something seriously wrong!!
agrizokh
Hit you in the soft spot, didn't I? That's quite a lot of information about yourself... Mind you, you are really cool, because you have a piece of wax with Rene Breitbarth's name on it.

Anyway, if you call everything with a minimised kick tech-house, I got a name for you - Oscar Mulero.

And fyi - your overuse of "like" really doesn't add credibility to what you're saying.

You get your music based on reviews on Resident Advisor, don't you?



joro
QUOTE (agrizokh @ 23. Dec 2010, 19:00) *
Hit you in the soft spot, didn't I?

You sound like Berghain hit you in your soft spot. You don't like them you don't listen to them.
agrizokh
It did indeed. I don't like them, I don't listen to them, and their dominance of the scene pisses me off.
rydimryder
If you think Ostgut dominates the scene then it sounds like YOU get your reviews from RA. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic about the Breitbarth comment, but either way, doesn't matter. As for my use of "like", I was being sarcastic man. It's clearly used for stylistic effect at the end of that second paragraph. I guess I could have used "enjoy" or "appreciate" in other instances, didn't realize that you would have so little to say about the content that you would choose instead to argue with my syntax.

I can't really see how I've said so much about myself other than that I own a few records, but since you asked I get most of my new music from alerts on my favourite labels and artists and by searching out tracks I like in mixes. The problem with RA, other than the fact that they tend to suck, is their reviews often come after a record is sold out; that and they have a really skewed sense of quality and they glorify the tech-house sound you are so fond of.

And I'm not sure why you think you're getting to me? I was merely trying to share some of my favourites with you in order to broaden YOUR horizons, but it's obviously a lost cause. Merry Christmas you grump! You're like the grinch who tried to steal techno.
Deadsell
QUOTE (rydimryder @ 24. Dec 2010, 15:34) *
If you think Ostgut dominates the scene then it sounds like YOU get your reviews from RA. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic about the Breitbarth comment, but either way, doesn't matter. As for my use of "like", I was being sarcastic man. It's clearly used for stylistic effect at the end of that second paragraph. I guess I could have used "enjoy" or "appreciate" in other instances, didn't realize that you would have so little to say about the content that you would choose instead to argue with my syntax.

I can't really see how I've said so much about myself other than I own a few records, but since you asked I get most of my new music from alerts on my favourite labels and artists and by searching out tracks I like in mixes. The problem with RA, other than the fact that they suck, is their reviews often come after a record is sold out; that and they have a really skewed sense of quality and they glorify the tech-house sound you are so found of.

And I'm not sure why you think you're getting to me? I was merely trying to share some of my favourites with you in order to broaden YOUR horizons, but it's obviously a lost cause. Merry Christmas you grump! You're like the grinch who tried to steal techno.


Well said mate!
quadraplex
i wouldnt be as hardline against the 'berghain sound' as our friend agrizokh but i defo feel that all of that kinda techno nowadays is pretty monotone and not much 'fun' to it. i would find myself reaching for a dj bone/stephen brown type of track to refresh the brain cells i.e. a bit more bouncy/heart on the sleeve funk filled etc etc.... but please feel free to post up any links to tracks i shud check out smile.gif

i guess its down to the old chestnut of personal preference, so i wont be trying to steam roller anyone into an anti-berghain way of thinking... not that any1 would listen haha. life is too short for any of that carry on anyway.

happy xmas y'all. peace.
Flint Eastwood
QUOTE (joro @ 23. Dec 2010, 21:30) *
QUOTE (agrizokh @ 23. Dec 2010, 19:00) *
Hit you in the soft spot, didn't I?

You sound like Berghain hit you in your soft spot. You don't like them you don't listen to them.


It's kind of pointless to say "if you don't like it don't listen to it". This is a place to discuss electronic music, including music that you don't like. Nothing wrong with venting about what you see as wrong in music. wink.gif

My biggest problem with the 'Berghain sound' is that, in my experience, I find it to be incredibly uncreative. Very little thought or time goes into creating the music - you can hear that. There's no structure, predictable lifts and falls, dull sound design, no harmonic or melodic interest and - actually - rarely even anything rhythmically interest. It suprises me that it's so popular because in my opinion it has very little going for it. I don't even find its repetitiveness hypnotic or mesmerising...just cheap. Real minimal should suck you in, this stuff leaves me cold emotionally and artistically.

Maybe I need to hear some different stuff to change my opinion...but this is what I think of the sound at the moment.
agrizokh
QUOTE (rydimryder @ 24. Dec 2010, 23:34) *
If you think Ostgut dominates the scene then it sounds like YOU get your reviews from RA.


Oh yeah? Then what does?

See here: http://www.juno.co.uk/techno/today/

Wednesday 22 December 2010
3 (three!) releases from Sandwell District, one from Droid Behaiviour out of 7 total, all shite. And the Blueprint release, I bet Mark Broom's shitwand only touched the horrible b-side. The A-side is good though. They should've pressed this one-sided, I'd like to have that track, but don't want to pollute my collection with the crap on the flap. So Blueprint ain't getting my 6 euros on this one...

21 December, 20 December same story, shite in the likes of Gary Beck, Mark Broom again, two releases from obscure German and Italian labels in the same (actually, even worse) boring vein and ubershite 1605 (which is shit on an absolutely different level).

And I'm just plain scared to look in the bestsellers section...
rydimryder
Then what does? That doesn't even make sense and it hardly matters. You tried to insult me by saying I get all my music from RA when that couldn't be further from the truth; you were just showing your ignorance and I couldn't help but notice the irony. As far as I'm concerned this "scene" business is irrelevant if you have your own clearly defined tastes and interests. Who cares what the bestsellers are? I certainly don't.

99% of that list is junk, you're right in that regard; however, there are a few decent tracks in there like the Silent Servant remix of Jolka's Five. Erotic Misery is alright though I prefer The Future That Was, but none of it even comes close to Slater's decimating remix of Outsider. Pure insanity. Valmay is also a recent Blueprint highlight of mine (Radiated Future, Old Dog).

I'm still not sure what the point here is—you seem to waver quite a bit in your convictions. I certainly don't disagree with your statement that most music is crap, but it's not like there wasn't plenty of shit in your golden standard years of the mid 90s. Do yourself a favour and go through the Prologue, Stroboscopic Artefacts, and Do Not Resist The Beat! (Milton Bradley) catalogs. And I notice you haven't downloaded Dozzy's K. You want something that compares to MvO, here it is:

http://www.torrentech.org/index.php?showtopic=150011

You want to trip the fuck out, try this on for size:

http://www.torrentech.org/index.php?showtopic=154135

You want to hear some sweet dubby tracks not on TT, here's two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr2CqV6AGAE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOlTmvbKegg

And if you want to know why I even care at this point, I noticed you uploaded Slater's The Drone Sector—you can't be as inept as you sound.

To summarize, yes, there's a lot of shit on Ostgut, but like I've said before, not everything is bad. Since I'm a ridiculously patient guy (at this moment) who loves techno way too much, here's several tracks that demonstrate Ostgut's value in this world. You don't like 'em, well then too bad, most people who like techno do. As someone mentioned above techno's hardly the thing people get into to garner social status so you can't fault one's intentions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBIXUfeGhOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcEWBqscAaw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57YmCje6i0U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z4QdShPw_A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-jvaDzkeQ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb95kgA1UOo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf9Yix_Kdvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srpt-otP_T0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NOTJW_5Xis

And lastly, two more things to download, both referenced in my original post and both clearly not listened to:

http://www.torrentech.org/index.php?showtopic=118788

http://www.torrentech.org/index.php?showtopic=75992

By the way, you never did clarify your original contradiction when you stated Ostgut sucks but that you like Ben Klock. Klock is the literal personification of the Ostgut sound and as a result this assessment practically negates your whole point of view. I'm pretty sure he's played every track from their catalog at some point or other, which ultimately just goes to show that it's not so much about the music but how you use it. Having said that, in my opinion all of the tracks I've listed here are fantastic and can stand alone just as well.

This will be my last post for this thread. You want to be a hater then hate all you want. I've done more than my part.

P.s. You bitch and moan, yet when someone takes the time to give you some recommendations based on your interests you don't even look into them. That there is your biggest problem. You think there's some magic list in life that's going to give you all the fucking answers. Sorry, there isn't. I've had to go through thousands of mixes and releases to find the few tracks that I like, which seems pretty damn logical to me as obviously my brain likes different shit then the next guy's, let alone the purveyors of mass taste. Apparently you expect to do nothing but download the top 20 and like every single one. That explains everything. Ughhh.
agrizokh
QUOTE (rydimryder @ 26. Dec 2010, 07:35) *
Then what does? That doesn't even make sense and it hardly matters. You tried to insult me by saying I get all my music from RA when that couldn't be further from the truth; you were just showing your ignorance and I couldn't help but notice the irony.


It does matter. As the example given in my previous post, this is pretty much the ONLY kind of techno being released these days. Which is pissing me off.

How was that an insult? It was just a question... And you metioned that fact in two of your posts already, soft spot again? yes.gif

QUOTE
I'm still not sure what the point here is—you seem to waver quite a bit in your convictions. I certainly don't disagree with your statement that most music is crap, but it's not like there wasn't plenty of shit in your golden standard years of the mid 90s. Do yourself a favour and go through the Prologue, Stroboscopic Artefacts, and Do Not Resist The Beat! (Milton Bradley) catalogs. And I notice you haven't downloaded Dozzy's K. You want something that compares to MvO, here it is:


Prologue = all shit. Stroboscopic Artifacts = all shit. Do Not Resist the Beat = shit that smells a bit nicer.

Where did I say I wanted something like Von Oswald? I just said that he did it all back in the beginning of the 90s, and did it better. And by the way, I'm not a big fan of his solo productions, like the Maurizio series. My favourite on BC is Vainqueur.

QUOTE
To summarize, yes, there's a lot of shit on Ostgut, but like I've said before, not everything is bad. Since I'm a ridiculously patient guy (at this moment) who loves techno way too much, here's several tracks that demonstrate Ostgut's value in this world. You don't like 'em, well then too bad, most people who like techno do. As someone mentioned above techno's hardly the thing people get into to garner social status so you can't fault one's intentions.


Listened to all of your youtube tracks - all represent shit. Boring, repetetive in a bad way, grooveless, unimaginative, completely undancable, with a kick which is as weak as an old man's diarrhea. Play a set like that and see people empty the club, without a few probably who can't get out of their k-hole.

QUOTE
By the way, you never did clarify your original contradiction when you stated Ostgut sucks but that you like Ben Klock. Klock is the literal personification of the Ostgut sound and as a result this assessment practically negates your whole point of view. I'm pretty sure he's played every track from their catalog at some point or other, which ultimately just goes to show that it's not so much about the music but how you use it. Having said that, in my opinion all of the tracks I've listed here are fantastic and can stand alone just as well.


I wish I knew. Maybe you have to mix four of them together like the Detroit guys do with their productions to get something passable, but alone they represent the worst in techno.

QUOTE
P.s. You bitch and moan, yet when someone takes the time to give you some recommendations based on your interests you don't even look into them. That there is your biggest problem. You think there's some magic list in life that's going to give you all the fucking answers. Sorry, there isn't. I've had to go through thousands of mixes and releases to find the few tracks that I like, which seems pretty damn logical to me as obviously my brain likes different shit then the next guy's, let alone the purveyors of mass taste. Apparently you expect to do nothing but download the top 20 and like every single one. That explains everything. Ughhh.


Did you notice how I tried to be nice in this post? Well, there you go - fuck you and your stupid recommendations. You are obviously not a DJ and if you say you are, your sound doesn't go further than your bedroom door, meaning that you know shit about techno. Techno is dancefloor music. With the internet and pirated downloads these days everyone thinks they're a fucking expert, well try to play out a single time and you will see how big a misconception that is and how much of a failure you are. I am just sorry for you that you spent so much time going "through thousands of mixes and releases" and picked such shit. It's people like you who kill the scene. Techno has always been about being non-compromising, driving, energetic and going crazy on the dancefloor, and not about a bunch of nerds bobbing their heads and going "Oooh, I appreciate the sheer beauty of the "The Lower Upside Down's" three-note lame melody, I must be so cool". And if you're still not sure what my point is, go to the hospital and fucking check yourself. You drool out of the side of your mouth occasionaly, don't you?
Flint Eastwood
Alright ladies, I think the point's been well made. Time to kiss and make up wink.gif I'm all up for banter regarding different opinions but it's gone too far now.

If you want to bitch about eachother then please use the offtopic forum wink.gif
agrizokh
Ah come on Flint, it was just getting fun!

I just got the most hilarious PM...

Isn't it what internet forums are all about, anyway? yes.gif

EDIT:
Listened to the new Sect release by Jolka. That's what I'm talking about! It could use less airiness and more punch, but well, you need these kind of tracks too. And the shittiest boring track is of course Silent Servant's, and guess which is the favourite track of our little specimen rydimryder? =)

Just listen to your senses people, and not to the hype. Or you will become like rydimryder.

And fuck it, I can risk a warn to save techno from impostors and idiots. This is what he sent me on PM:
QUOTE
You're An Idiot, Yesterday, 06:08
ust read your reply; real nice. I know you can't have a discussion with stupid people but this is extreme. Did I ever say I'd play a track like The Lower Upside Down on the dance floor? No. I wouldn't. That's hardly the point. Anyway man, apparently it's just you who's missing out here. Nothing but negative vibes; can't find any music you like. Hates the scene but produces nothing. Adds nothing. Boo fucking hoo. And you think you're some big shot expert yet you say you switched to vinyl in the hopes of finding exclusives? Reeks novice all over. Stick to your shitty ass Traktor or CDJs, you're not doing anyone a favour.

One last thing, I'm not a "DJ". I'm a guy who likes electronic music, has a sick setup, and plays for himself and his friends. But I am an architect. What are you, a clerk at a store? A bartender? A janitor? A factory worker? A labourer? Probably nothing that required eight years of school—your ignorance and hostility prove that much. Either way, as the title suggests, you are an idiot.

Peace, and don't bother replying as I've blocked your account. I don't need more "thanks" for trying to help.


Oh my god he's a fucking ARCHITECT! Then go design buildings and stay away from stuff you have no idea about. And I'm a store clerk =). I'm a DJ, you retard! And I switched to vinyl to be even more different from people like you with your "sick setups".

Really, you people should should pull your heads out of your asses. We can't let our scene be ruined by nerds. Learn from the hippies, their scene is now almost discredited because of all the drunken frat boys they let in. We here have the same shit, different angle. If you don't want people to laugh at techno culture (like they already do at trance culture) you have to turn on your punk attitude, stand up and fight for purity and righteousness!

In our case it's actually even more sad, because they are infiltrating the most sacred thing - the MUSIC! But it's not over yet...
theUbiq
Is this finished now?

Do we all agree that perhaps the Berghain sound has been hyped a lot and that its been done better before and in a more interesting way?
dysenteri
so mr TS dont like the new style in techno, but what does he like? a mention of a Jolka tune but not much else... What do you consider good stuff nowadays?
Clust3r
It happens to everything really If you think about it. Any label that comes along and dominates for a while, they have a few good releases and their all over the media. As long as the music is good I dont mind, I tend not to follow one sound but I do or have in the past followed labels and their releases and as I said, they can go on a roll for a while but it inevitably comes to a stop sooner or later. Its not their fault people are writing about them, I'd imagine they are thrilled with the attention.

More power to them

thumbsup.gif
flashgordon
Hippys suck
Nerds suck
Hipsters suck
The media suck
Techno sucks
Music sucks
Heads in asses suck
You suck
I suck
It all just sucks man!!!

At least they ain't making cheese man, so who gives a flying fuck!
prftrls
Berghain looks like a prison
benway
Best. Thread. Ever.
Dubwisee57
QUOTE (benway @ 09. Mar 2011, 00:33) *
Best. Thread. Ever.


Yeah, it allows me to discover Donato Dozzy thumbsup.gif
Peznakov
Wait a sec OP....you make it sound like you'd never heard of Takkyu Ishino before this festival?!

If that's the case....

ohmy.gif
cerimac2011
QUOTE (two|beers @ 08. Dec 2010, 18:02) *
I'm not a Berghain fanboy but it is something different from most clubs i've been to. Not really "better" but special. And I think just because some tracks arent made with 50 Layers makes them shit. Its a matter of taste... I agree with all the hype and #1 club talks the Berghain lost some of its roots but that started years ago. I hardly went there the last year but enjoyed the music every time for myself.



I agree that Berghain is 'special'... Was there last month and also there New Years Eve/New Years Day. The sound system is something special both in the main room and upstairs in the Panorama Bar.

The music style is slammin @ the Berghain (techno cave!) with bass rattling your ribs and the trebles/high zooming around the room above yr head. Whilst upstairs in Panorama Bar the music is upbeat and groovey and when the shutters open and the day light comes in the place goes off!! The Function 1's are amazing!! Also on NYE the whole building is open including the Lab on the ground floor. Crazy place!! Went down to see Soundstream playing. Im loving the Soundstream label and record releases @ the min along with DVS1. As for Berghain and Panorama Bar, Ben Clock is slammin along with Oliver Deutchman. Prosumer rocks the Panorama Bar and is a pleasure to watch. He's well in the groove and a lovely guy! He's due to release a CD which Im gonna get my hands on. Steffi and Dinky also rinse it... Other than that I cant really remember much all else as I was in there for 24hrs solid and as you can imagine a lil worse for wear by that time!

Last time I was in Berlin I checked out Tresor. Upstairs is cool whilst downstairs is banging!! All in all a good friday night there popping my Tresor cherry

woot.gif
UCH
I like Sandwell District. whistling.gif
HotFuzzy
First of all, it all comes down to personal music preference. Just because other people like a certain style or genre of music doesn't mean that you have to. Secondly, coming on here and making "flame" posts like this doesn't help.
rydimryder
QUOTE (Dubwisee57 @ 14. Mar 2011, 18:40) *
QUOTE (benway @ 09. Mar 2011, 00:33) *
Best. Thread. Ever.


Yeah, it allows me to discover Donato Dozzy thumbsup.gif


You're welcome.
nylonrobot
QUOTE (agrizokh @ 08. Dec 2010, 10:33) *
I mean the so-called "Berghain sound" which is all over the place these days, labels like Sandwell District, Horizontal Ground, Traversible Wormhole, and Ostgut themselves...

I guess it works in the Berghain atmosphere, but sounds very weird everywhere else. It's also all the same - someone (Ben Klock?) came up with the sound, and now everyone's copying it, it's sort of the new mnml with the same generic sounds, but now sounding more lo-fi. Where's the groove? Where's the music? Where's the innovation, finnaly? To me, it's just boom boom boom with no groove with some eeire pads on top. How is that cool and/or dancable?

You open the techno sectionin any online record store, and it's that stuff all over it.

Examples: saw Robag Whrume, the guy everyone seems to suck up to on the internets, and he killed the atmosphere of the whole festival with his "real techno". After him, a Japanese dude named Takkyu Ishino managed not only to revive the party, but become the star of the show right before the boring headliners went on.

Also saw Ben Klock, but he was pretty good - but he has a very distinct style, and, for instance, I doubt that any of the tracks he played would fit into my set. Though his set was even more into schranz territorry.

Where's the pure electronic techno? So what if the acid sound isn't new, you can still make wonders with it (though it seems too many fakes put their hands on a 303 these days). Where are the tight percussive loops, fucked up driving beats and phat synths?

Wanted to write some more, but thoughts escape me now...

Anyway, this is a rant of a DJ who switched to vinyl in hopes there may be some better exclusive tunes there, but they are still one in a million, compared to one in a trilli-fucking-whatever-on on digital. Nope, 99% of the vinyl sold these days can go straight back to the plant for recycling... I spend hours and days listening and trying to form my record collection, and I still pretty much buy classics. Getting frustrated and dissapointed in the techno scene... And seeing that I bob my head more to vocal house releases, at least those got soul =)


First of all its only my personal opinion, i dont want to prove anything to anyone or change what music either of you are listening to.

I've red only your post, cus im not in the mood of reading text walls at the moment. First of all i just wanna say that Takkyu Ishino is not only a dude, hes an awesome producer with great potential. I wanna ask you, what do you expect? Most of the people hear things which are over hyped even before they reach the stores n stuff, which leads to big labels like u mentioned above ruling the interwebs and masses with their bullshitechno.

There are pretty new labels like Council House Records, Micron Audio with artists like Shawn Rudimann, DJ Stingray and stuff, but when i ask how many vinyls and digital records they sell its just makes me THINK.

Robag Whurm or whatever has a most retarded sound ive heard over past few years, his music is soulless and boring and i dont get it how people can call it real techno or even techno, because its 3 looped sounds playing for 8 minutes, most of his work could be used to torture people in some underground jail.

Ben Klock - this guy has his + and - but generally hes pretty good, played after him at one venue and he really made people dance, cus he mainly played groovy detroitish stuff.

To answer where is pure electronic techno / acid techno etc. There is none and there wont be none, you can find something similar, i can even give you links to artists in pm but the old Detroit/Berlin sound is gone forever, thats for sure. Look to what Saunderson, May plays, its mostly oldies goldies from 90s. Carl Craig adapted to the system and plays bullshit together with Luciano (almost fell asleep during their Time Warp set) i really hope he will repent his sins this year in Detroit while doing 69 live.Mad Mike doesnt release shit himself cus there is no point. Surgeon makes some good remixes but nothing really cool of his own. Aux88, Octave One does their live sets. Jeff Mills produces himself, and his dj sets are mostly from his own tracks. And so on..i could continue the list but you know the situation yourself. The only artist who really surprised me was Oscar Mulero with his new album Grey faded to Green, that one is awesome, even know its released last month.

Im making a mixtape for one of the online mag podcasts at the moment, and all the tracks are mostly from 90s and early 2000 Berlin/Detroit based. I simply cant find any good, new music, maybe i could, but im just to bored swimming in shit when i jump in to the sea of online record stores.

Anyway if you are a DJ one of your tasks should be to make a record sound timeless and groovy no matter if its a classic or a new one. Spin the wax and keep fighting, situation is bad, but complaining didnt help anyone, somebody needs to keep up the right sound, doesnt matter if its heard by 30 or 3000 people, important thing, like it yourself, im sure that there are many old and not that old records which you will discover or re-discover and continue playing.

Sorry for brainstorming, hope you got what i meant. Cheers and good luck.
Seany
I stopped reading after the first half of this thread, it was interesting at first but then it turned into a bout of crotch grabbing insecure snobbery, techno is techno....
Mr.Dubbaleena
who cares about techno anyway
its only cool once its used 'outside of its box'
agrizokh
Hehe nylonrobot, it seems we're on the same beat =)

I'm not that frustrated anymore too =) Found a lot of amazing stuff lately, for instance the yet unreleased System 7 album - it's heavenly! Very full of creative ideas, groovy, percussive and melodic at the same time, with a classic sound that is timeless and sounds very fresh. Also really digging Wehbba, he's one of my favourite producers these days, for some reason I heard his "Full Circle" album just recently and loved it. The guy his own sound completely worked out, to the point that sometimes it sounds that he repeats himself. But still really good, compared to most of the others.

And my favourite 12" lately is the Advent/Industrializer "Sch Exp" EP, especially the b-side! For me it sounds like their best release to date, most of their previous stuff always seemed a bit too dirty/unsystematic/unfinished. But this is very solid.

pyn
who needs soap operas when you have tT?
Idle.
Flint Eastwood
Flawless Victory!
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